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Interview

NOVA Power Solutions: “The Increase in Indigenous Development and the Progress of the Turkish Defence Industry is an Advantage For Us!”

NOVA Power Solutions, Inc. is a U.S.-based company that has partnered with local Turkish firms on Defence projects over the past seven years. In an exclusive IDEF ‘19 interview, NOVA Power Solutions President and CEO Steve ZIFF, NOVA Power Solutions Business Development Manager for EMEA (Europe, the Middle East & Africa) Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU, and NOVA Power Solutions Business Development Manager Kurt WORDEN discuss the company’s seven-year presence in Turkey. Their discussion focuses on their role as a component system provider to Turkish Defence firms and the ways this partnership has enabled indigenous Turkish design to proceed more quickly and reliably. The team from NOVA Power also shares the company’s plans for future local partnerships on military and commercial projects

Issue 93

Defence Turkey: As a company doing business in Turkey for several years, how do you evaluate interest from Turkey and other countries in your IDEF booth, and what kinds of products are you displaying or showing to your visitors?

Steve ZIFF: NOVA Power is a component product manufacturer, so we are quite focused on selling our products to the Turkish market and to others. We’ve seen a number of our customers and potential customers come by the booth and expect to see more in the next couple of days.  I don’t know if we have seen as much non-Turkish international traffic as we may have in past years, but the show is still only about halfway through.  For those who have come to our booth, we’ve been able to showcase our successes.  We have over 300 of our systems deployed in Turkey on military platforms.  Every class of Turkish Navy ship has our products on it, and there is still a lot of room for growth and improvement in Navy applications and also outside of the Navy as well, not only in terms of other military applications but also things like infrastructure, rail, traffic, and more.  

Currently, our solutions are only deployed in military environments in Turkey, and we are looking to expand that presence and believe there is a lot of opportunity there, but we also want to expand into civilian infrastructure and transportation sectors as well. 

Defence Turkey: Have you had any contact or meetings with Turkish officials during IDEF ’19, such as with the SSB, MoND, or the Turkish Armed Forces ?

Steve ZIFF: Yes, all of them.  We operate by working mostly with the system integrators, so they are hired by the military or whomever to create a broader solution, of which we provide one of the critical components, so our end customers may be on a ship somewhere or on a ground station or operating UAVs or things like that.  We work very closely with Aselsan, Havelsan, YALTES, Vestel, and many of the other integrators or system manufacturers to embed our products in theirs.   

Defence Turkey: What kind of systems have you provided to Vestel?   

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU: We have provided the power supply solutions for their UAV Ground Control Systems. 

Steve ZIFF: It’s commonly referred to as an Uninterruptible Power Supply or UPS. When people think of a UPS, they think of something that sits off to the side and it’s waiting, and when there is a power loss it starts working and provides battery backup. That’s maybe 10% of the functionality of what our company would consider a full power solution.  Our products are always running.  To take the example of a UAV Ground Control Station, which is most likely somewhere in a remote area and probably running off a generator, or even if it is getting power, probably not the most reliable consistent power.  What we do is make sure that the critical technology in that ground station has consistent power at all times regardless of whether there’s a drop, a surge, or a power loss.  We make sure that none of those things affect the end system and that it still does its job.  If you’re the Ground Control Station for UAV and you have power fluctuations affecting the performance of that UAV, that’s very harmful.  Also, in addition to perhaps having a generator that typically is not providing perfect power, in your whole network of electronics you may also have one component that runs into issues, and this can have a negative impact on other components.  From an electronics perspective, we make sure that doesn’t happen either. We isolate the input, we isolate any anomalies in the input, and then we also isolate all the component parts from one another, so it’s far more than what a lot of people think of as a UPS, which is why we tend not to call it that.  If someone just simply wants ten minutes of battery backup power in case they lose power, they can go buy a very cheap commercial product to do that.  If they want something that ensures continuous consistent power, whether it’s a weapons system, a communications system, or another critical system, they should get a full power solution.

Defence Turkey: How can you ensure power continuity for a remote sensor of a UAV System that is deployed high on a mountain for several weeks? 

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU: We provide power continuity at all times no matter what the power infrastructure is. One side of it is electrical problems, and the other side of it is environmental problems. What we do is in the electrical aspect.  We eliminate all the power anomalies coming from the infrastructure or generator. 

Steve ZIFF: Oftentimes, we are talking about very remote areas. Of course, those sensors are still getting power from somewhere. There’s the power that the sensors are getting and then there’s the sensor, and we sit in between the two of them and make sure that the system is continuously getting what it needs, and we can do that in very cold areas on mountains or in very warm or dusty desert environments.  Another good example of a critical system we support is the traffic at intersections.  A traffic intersection has some controls that dictate when the light turns and when it doesn’t, and those are controls that obviously have to be running all the time.  Our power solutions can keep those systems running as well.

Defence Turkey: Do you also work with other UAV makers in Turkey such as TUSAS and Baykar Makina?

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU: We have some relationships, but so far nothing has become a solid output.  

Steve ZIFF: But in the U.S. we do.  We have multiple programs that we support.  It’s interesting for us, as we’ve been in the Turkish market now for six or seven years, that the U.S. has UAVs and Turkey has UAVs, the U.S. has Navy ships of varying classes and so does Turkey, so a lot of our applications are very transferable.  

Defence Turkey: Are your products subject to U.S. ITAR Regulations?   

Steve ZIFF: We are not ITAR-regulated. While we offer a custom solution, it is still U.S. Commerce Department-regulated, so the nice thing is it is very easy for us to sell to Turkey, but, as you are saying, it is even more important as you look to export. That’s a big benefit.  Aselsan is exporting our technology.  For example, if we built the solution for Aselsan and say, for example, it’s for the Pakistan Navy and Aselsan builds components of the ship, as they send off their solutions, ours is right in there with it and becomes an Aselsan product. In that same sense, for Aselsan particularly, a lot of our products for those reasons have their name on them.  They don’t even have NOVA Power on them; they say Aselsan, and we are fine with that.  

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU: In the beginning of our interview, you underscored that the number of EU and U.S.-based foreign participants to the IDEF Fairs is decreasing gradually.  That actually does not affect us at all because we position ourselves to contribute to the Turkish Defence Industry, especially indigenous development activities, by providing the most reliable power solutions to go with their systems. Therefore, the increase in indigenous development and the progress of the Turkish Defence Industry is an advantage for us.

Defence Turkey: Do you also provide your power solutions to Turkish Air Force (TurAF)? Do you have any business with them?

Steve ZIFF: The model we followed in Turkey is very similar to the model that we’ve had in the U.S.  We’ve been in business for over 30 years in the U.S.  Our deep expertise has been in the U.S. Navy. 

Defence Turkey: What kind of systems do you provide for ships? They have their own power systems such as diesel engines or gas turbines or both.

Steve ZIFF: If you take any size Navy ship, think of how many different systems they have on that ship: communications, radars, weapons, guidance, TV, etc.  If you go on a typical U.S. ship and you walk the ship and see the different rooms and the different equipment and the technology, we’re all over the ship.  We’re in nearly all of the different systems and the components, so the more technology and the worse the power, the more important it is for us.  Our 30 years of success have come in large part from naval applications.  When we looked at the Turkish market, we figured that we would most likely follow a similar path because we have so many success stories and our team of experts have a very strong Navy background, and as we’ve made success on the Navy side, just like we have in the U.S., then we start to expand to some of these other areas.  While we have had a lot of successes and it’s no surprise that they have been on the Navy side, we are still pursuing other areas, and we see those as areas for us to grow within Turkey.

Defence Turkey: Are your products subject to U.S. ITAR Regulations?   

Steve ZIFF: We are not ITAR-regulated. While we offer a custom solution, it is still U.S. Commerce Department-regulated, so the nice thing is it is very easy for us to sell to Turkey, but, as you are saying, it is even more important as you look to export. That’s a big benefit.  Aselsan is exporting our technology.  For example, if we built the solution for Aselsan and say, for example, it’s for the Pakistan Navy and Aselsan builds components of the ship, as they send off their solutions, ours is right in there with it and becomes an Aselsan product. In that same sense, for Aselsan particularly, a lot of our products for those reasons have their name on them.  They don’t even have NOVA Power on them; they say Aselsan, and we are fine with that.  

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU: In the beginning of our interview, you underscored that the number of EU and U.S.-based foreign participants to the IDEF Fairs is decreasing gradually.  That actually does not affect us at all because we position ourselves to contribute to the Turkish Defence Industry, especially indigenous development activities, by providing the most reliable power solutions to go with their systems. Therefore, the increase in indigenous development and the progress of the Turkish Defence Industry is an advantage for us.

Defence Turkey: Do you also provide your power solutions to Turkish Air Force (TurAF)? Do you have any business with them?

Steve ZIFF: The model we followed in Turkey is very similar to the model that we’ve had in the U.S.  We’ve been in business for over 30 years in the U.S.  Our deep expertise has been in the U.S. Navy. 

Defence Turkey: What kind of systems do you provide for ships? They have their own power systems such as diesel engines or gas turbines or both.

Steve ZIFF: If you take any size Navy ship, think of how many different systems they have on that ship: communications, radars, weapons, guidance, TV, etc.  If you go on a typical U.S. ship and you walk the ship and see the different rooms and the different equipment and the technology, we’re all over the ship.  We’re in nearly all of the different systems and the components, so the more technology and the worse the power, the more important it is for us. Our 30 years of success have come in large part from naval applications.  When we looked at the Turkish market, we figured that we would most likely follow a similar path because we have so many success stories and our team of experts have a very strong Navy background, and as we’ve made success on the Navy side, just like we have in the U.S., then we start to expand to some of these other areas.  While we have had a lot of successes and it’s no surprise that they have been on the Navy side, we are still pursuing other areas, and we see those as areas for us to grow within Turkey.

Defence Turkey: So your solutions are customer unique?

Steve ZIFF: Yes, exactly. For example, we may have had an opportunity for a SATCOM system for Turkey, and then maybe later a different system comes up with a need.  While we could go and build something new, the power solution that we built for the earlier customer could very well be a good solution that requires no additional development, so we’ve been successful in being able to recognize when solutions we have already designed might work in a different system with minimal adaptation. 

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU:  Our design and development processes are compliant with relevant military standards for shock, vibration, electro-magnetic interference, humidity, and very extreme environmental temperatures, from very hot areas to very cold areas, especially important for military applications that operate in harsh environments.  Our products are designed to meet those standards, and we also meet the specific environmental requirements of a particular system or project. Of course, our solutions are always tested by third-party independent test laboratories and certified.  We meet all the miliitary and industrial standards for electrical, EMI/EMC, and for environmental conditions.

Defence Turkey: Are you also delivering power solutions for submarines in Turkey?

Steve ZIFF: Yes, we deliver for U.S. and also for Turkish submarines as well.  One thing worth mentioning when we talk about indigeonus development is that, five years ago when Turkish customers asked if we can build something in Turkey, we always said that we are committed to considering what we can do in-country as the amount of business increases and justifies it.  While we have Süleyman, who lives here, we are also close to establishing in-country technical support, co-development, maintenance-type capabilities as well.  We will do this ourselves; we will hire some resources. We are nearing that point and are close.  We have a plan, and we have identified some resources, and it is now just a matter of execution.  To meet the general requirements for all of our customers in Turkey, we currently have to ship some equipment back to the U.S., and that takes time.  Soon we will be able to provide maintenance here in Turkey.  Five years ago when we had almost no business, Turkish customers were understanding and quite reasonable with us about the situation.  Now that we’ve had years of successes and future growth, we have said all along that we would make incremental investment as it made sense, and we are keeping our end of that as well.  

Defence Turkey: As you have pointed out, in order to be successful you have to join the process from the beginning – and at the moment there are many Turkish Navy programs such as Reis Class Submarines, TGC Anadolu LHD, I Class  Frigates, TF-2000 AWD, MILDEN, etc.  Have you already joined the process?

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU:  Not directly, but through the system integrators who are developing systems for those platforms and shipbuilding activities.  We do not directly provide the systems.  We are a component provider.  We do not provide a standalone system.  Most of the time, we team with the system integrator or the system manufacturer.  Our solutions will be present on those platforms through the systems integrators that we have been collaborating with.  For certain systems, especially satellite communication systems, we are a de facto power system provider for all of the Turkish Navy’s satellite communication systems onboard the ship.       

Steve ZIFF: So, it has become the standard, which is important, and of course our goal is to become the standard for as many of those things as possible.  That might start from the satellite communications on a certain class of ship, and as they go and upgrade and put in modifications, then for other classes our product is part of that.  

Defence Turkey: Have you delivered any solutions to the Turkish Air Force?

Steve ZIFF: No, not yet.  However, in the U.S. we have served all branches of the military and civilian as well.  We have been trying to pursue similar opportunities in Turkey.

Defence Turkey: So your solutions are customer unique?

Steve ZIFF: Yes, exactly. For example, we may have had an opportunity for a SATCOM system for Turkey, and then maybe later a different system comes up with a need.  While we could go and build something new, the power solution that we built for the earlier customer could very well be a good solution that requires no additional development, so we’ve been successful in being able to recognize when solutions we have already designed might work in a different system with minimal adaptation. 

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU:  Our design and development processes are compliant with relevant military standards for shock, vibration, electro-magnetic interference, humidity, and very extreme environmental temperatures, from very hot areas to very cold areas, especially important for military applications that operate in harsh environments.  Our products are designed to meet those standards, and we also meet the specific environmental requirements of a particular system or project.  Of course, our solutions are always tested by third-party independent test laboratories and certified.  We meet all the miliitary and industrial standards for electrical, EMI/EMC, and for environmental conditions.

Defence Turkey: Are you also delivering power solutions for submarines in Turkey?

Steve ZIFF: Yes, we deliver for U.S. and also for Turkish submarines as well.  One thing worth mentioning when we talk about indigeonus development is that, five years ago when Turkish customers asked if we can build something in Turkey, we always said that we are committed to considering what we can do in-country as the amount of business increases and justifies it.  While we have Süleyman, who lives here, we are also close to establishing in-country technical support, co-development, maintenance-type capabilities as well.  We will do this ourselves; we will hire some resources. We are nearing that point and are close.  We have a plan, and we have identified some resources, and it is now just a matter of execution.  To meet the general requirements for all of our customers in Turkey, we currently have to ship some equipment back to the U.S., and that takes time.  Soon we will be able to provide maintenance here in Turkey.  Five years ago when we had almost no business, Turkish customers were understanding and quite reasonable with us about the situation.  Now that we’ve had years of successes and future growth, we have said all along that we would make incremental investment as it made sense, and we are keeping our end of that as well.  

Defence Turkey: As you have pointed out, in order to be successful you have to join the process from the beginning – and at the moment there are many Turkish Navy programs such as Reis Class Submarines, TGC Anadolu LHD, I Class  Frigates, TF-2000 AWD, MILDEN, etc.  Have you already joined the process?

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU:  Not directly, but through the system integrators who are developing systems for those platforms and shipbuilding activities.  We do not directly provide the systems.  We are a component provider.  We do not provide a standalone system.  Most of the time, we team with the system integrator or the system manufacturer.  Our solutions will be present on those platforms through the systems integrators that we have been collaborating with.  For certain systems, especially satellite communication systems, we are a de facto power system provider for all of the Turkish Navy’s satellite communication systems onboard the ship.       

Steve ZIFF: So, it has become the standard, which is important, and of course our goal is to become the standard for as many of those things as possible.  That might start from the satellite communications on a certain class of ship, and as they go and upgrade and put in modifications, then for other classes our product is part of that.  

Defence Turkey: Have you delivered any solutions to the Turkish Air Force?

Steve ZIFF: No, not yet.  However, in the U.S. we have served all branches of the military and civilian as well.  We have been trying to pursue similar opportunities in Turkey.

Defence Turkey: You have said that you are providing solutions for SATCOM systems in Turkey.  SATCOM is also being employed on land platforms.  Have you received any contracts from any land platform manufacturers, such as Otokar, BMC, or Nurol, for such a requirement?

Kurt WORDEN: Not directly, the platform manufacturers are not providing the SATCOM equipment. SATCOM equipment is being provided by the electronic systems integrators, and we do have work with them for land systems platforms. 

Defence Turkey: You have also underlined that you are on the way to establishing a maintenance facility in Turkey to meet maintenance and upgrade requirements.  Will this facility also be able to provide services to other customers in the region? 

Kurt WORDEN: Yes, the map displayed in our booth and our web site shows where our products are deployed.  Süleyman focuses most of his time in Turkey, he also has responsibility for the broader surrounding region, including service and support.

Defence Turkey: Do you have any plans to establish a partnership or joint venture, or just to stay as a standalone company?  Or do you have plans to buy a Turkish company in this field?

Kurt WORDEN: We are interested in finding a partner that is compatible with our business, but finding the right partner is difficult in a niche market. We have looked at a couple of different companies, and we are having discussions with some and will see where it goes.  

Steve ZIFF: Obviously, our business model is very collaborative, so we form a lot of partnerships.  In some of the areas where we lack certain expertise we will partner with others, and I think every time you talk about a partnership it can have many different forms.  A partnership can be simply transactional in form, or it can be a little broader from a collaborative business pursuit perspective, or it can be something even more intertwined that takes on more of an investment aspect or a joint venture or something like that, so we will consider all types of partnerships as we progress in this phase.  We are only seven years into our relationship in Turkey, and for us to continue to have success and grow, we are constantly revisiting our approach and our model, and those things that you have suggested are things that we are considering all the time. 

Defence Turkey: What about your supply chain? Do you have any Turkish companies in your supply chain?  

Steve ZIFF: That’s very much in the mix as well.  For us, while we currently do 100% of our manufacturing in the U.S., the hard step is to go from zero in Turkey to something.  It’s not necessarily that we are going to shift to doing everything here; we will do what makes sense.  As Süleyman said earlier, we have all the quality control processes – the military standards and the testing that needs to be done – back in the U.S., and how do you replicate that in another country from a manufacturing perspective?  However, we may be able to improve the supply chain side of things.  From an investment perspective, we have customers across the globe that we spend time with and try to pursue, but nothing at the same level as in Turkey.  The investment that we have made here is far and away the most significant investment we have made.

Defence Turkey: Since you’re going to make an investment in Turkey, have you contacted the SSB to make business/investment easier and to get info, such as info on tax benefits?

Steve ZIFF: I don’t think we’ve had those conversations.  Up until now, we haven’t had a lot to talk about because we were still very early on, but as we potentially invest on the service, maintenance, and support side, we will certainly want to let them know, and if there are things that they might be able to help with, we would be glad to take their assistance.   

Süleyman BAYRAMOĞLU: As far as I know, that will be on the table when we decide to do some co-development or co-manufacturing activities, and right now we are in the process of finding the right model. The maintenance and support are separate from this.  When we decide to do some local manufacturing, to move some of the manufacturing efforts to Turkey, of course we will try to get at least some technical support, not financial support, and some recognition from the SSB.  

Kurt WORDEN: One of the challenges that we have, not specific to Turkey but across the board, around the that there are a very limited number of component manufacturers.  Most component manufacturers are located in Asia; China, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc.  While you were conducting the earlier part of the interview, I was searching the IDEF exhibitors for new component manufacturers.  I didn’t find any.  Finding Turkish component manufacturers (not distributers) of individual components is desired, but difficult.  Would we use them if we found them?  Probably. This is a challenge for us.

Steve ZIFF: If you look at electronics in a circuit board, almost all of those components are manufactured in China, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc.  Everyone is buying them from the same place.  Of course, the value is what you do with those when you put them together if you are making electronics.  We were able to buy those components in enough volume and have relationships that we could get them at a good price and in a relatively quick timeframe.  We don’t know what the actual benefit of investment in local component manufacturing would be to the process.

Defence Turkey: Can you share some figures from the business volume in Turkey?

Steve ZIFF: Last year, in 2018, Turkey represented 15% of our overall revenue, the U.S. represented 80%, and 5% was other international business. When we made the investment to at least investigate the Turkish market back in around 2012 or 2013, we knew that it would take some time.  I don’t think we saw our first revenue until 2015-2016.  It was two, three, four years of nothing, and now it is 15% of our business and growing.  Those were the expectations that we had going in. Half the battle going in is making sure that your expectations are right.  We don’t say, ‘Alright, Süleyman, you’re on board, on day one we need a lot of revenue.’ We knew that it would take time and investment, and continued investment in things like attending this event, working with your magazine, are important for us to continue to grow our presence here and create a service organization.

Defence Turkey: Ministry of Interior, Turkish Police, and Gendarmarie—do you do business with them?

Kurt WORDEN: Our direct involvement with the Government is fairly minimal; most of it is through integrators. We are a subsystem supplier, not a complete capability provider. We provide a subsystem that allows for indigeonous Turkish design to proceed at a faster, more reliable rate. 

Steve ZIFF: It’s been mostly defence so far. If the integrators that we are working with are defence or if they happen to work in other non-defence areas, then those of course are areas that we want to pursue with them. Public Safety is an area that we have expertise in, along with transportation, rail, and those kinds of things.  For example, a public safety vehicle, a train, a bus – it is very important for all the systems there to function without interruption.  Those vehicles are not plugging into the wall as their power source, and a public safety vehicle is no different from a tank from that perspective.  These are mobile vehicles, and they have critical technology that needs to function.

Defence Turkey: Do you also have products for electrically powered or hybrid military platforms?

Kurt WORDEN: Yes, but not from the perspective of power storage or dispersion to the main drive train. What we will do is ensure that the subsystems continue to receive the power that they are supposed to receive during high discharge applications of the vehicle’s primary storage. 

Steve ZIFF: No matter what the power source is – solar, wind, it doesn’t matter – it is about how that power is going to feed those systems.

Defence Turkey: So what about space platforms? Do you have power solutions also for space platforms?

Kurt WORDEN: We don’t have the capability in space platforms.  We do currently at the ground level with space control, but nothing in space as of now.

Steve ZIFF: We are working on it, but the issue there is that airborne has another set of standards, and intentionally we have not pursued that area. We are actually working with a Turkish engineering firm to potentially get those airborne certifications.  To give you an example, while we been doing business here in Turkey for seven years, there was a U.S.-sponsored trade mission in February that we participated in.  Some might wonder, why are you on a trade mission when you already know the market? Well, that gets us great exposure to other companies. On this trade mission, we may have met a firm that has engineering capability for airborne, and then we may have followed up with them, and we might have seen them here at IDEF.  So, pursing through IDEF, through U.S. trade-based activities, and through regular follow-ups, we have identified a possible partner to help us with that, and if they can help us with our airborne capabilities here in Turkey, we can use that back in the U.S. as well.  That is a great example of a relationship that can have a significant effect for both organizations.

Defence Turkey: In conclusion, would you like to add a message to our readers about your future activities and objectives in Turkey?

Steve ZIFF: I think that we attempt to put our blinders on and not worry about the politics of the day between our countries or the world and instead focus on what we do.  We are very confident that we have done a good job in establishing a strong reputation here. We have educated the Turkish market as to why they need our technology, why it is critical for them, and we fully expect to continue on a growth path for many, many years to come, and we think it is a very strong market for us.  We will definitely be at IDEF ‘21.

When we are working closely with a team, when they get ready to go through some of their testing, obviously they are not testing our product on its own.  They are testing it in conjunction with all the systems.  And often times, as with any testing of electronics, things don’t work right the first time, and we are very much involved in helping them troubleshoot.  Most times the problems are not with our product but with something else – some configurations, some interactions – and we are able to help them identify what those issues are.  Sometimes the answer might be a configuration change on our end because the information they gave us six months ago about their load systems or power needs is no longer accurate because they have made design changes along the way.  For example, maybe they swapped something out and it has more power needs or less power needs, and suddenly things aren’t configured exactly perfectly or there are issues with how one of those other systems interfaces with our product, so  oftentimes we are helping them through those types of challenges.  We are not just selling them a component and saying, go ahead, good luck.  This has been true in the U.S., and I think we would see it here in Turkey also – if customers were asked about NOVA Power, they would say two things: product quality, and service and support.  When they call, we answer.  When they email, we answer.  When there’s a possible problem that may not even be related to us, we answer.  If there’s something that is not even related to us but they want our advice, we answer.  Our products are very reliable, our defect rates are very, very low, even in Turkey so far.  We have very, very few issues.  We take a lot of pride in quality and our support service.  I think most customers would answer the same way when asked about us.

Kurt WORDEN: You have asked about last words.  We are very excited about the potential of the market in Turkey and the potential for us to bring Turkish content to other parts of the world.  I am extremely excited about the ability to work with particularly Turkish engineers because they are very good, and I am also excited about the ability to grow our business with some capabilities that we don’t currently have.

Defence Turkey: Will you be here at IDEF ‘21, perhaps with a local company?

Steve ZIFF: That could very well be. 

Kurt WORDEN: Inşallah. 

Defence Turkey: Thank you for sharing your time for our readers